Was she the women at the party?" The point, however, is that even if all three female> 'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the same> character), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not to> mention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world."<<<<<<<<<<>. I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. But what he was getting at was whether it was murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it would not have happened had he not been there. EWS was potential. He is not exactly > voicing his thoughts. That is a possible explanation. > The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as > though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be > confused.>, > 2. Masks - both literal and figurative - are a major motif, and one of the most important sequences is when Bill infiltrates a masked sex party at a remote mansion, which is being held by members of high society. Somerton could hardly be> >>>>>> described (and>> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. <<<<<<<<, > In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, > subliminally. We need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2. >>>>>>>>>If this were really the> case, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to the> masked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. We could say that even Nick was in on it and the phone call to Nick in the Jazz club was a set up to pique Bill's interest, even letting Bill knows the password. and she > replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," > Mandy says, "I know." > Take another listen. Next: The Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King's Story. >Apparently word of Bill's> entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. WebThe bodies of more completely nude masked women assail Bills voyeuristic eyes (and those of the audience). Mon 14th Feb 2022 19.00 GMT. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film's> critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." >> When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"> but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him at> the orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? Let him go! It was a party nevertheless. --Napoleon. > If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professionaldoctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety thanabout Mandy's actual wellbeing. Changes within the building seem to lack that phone booth sense of urgency and drama. I am normally the last guy in the, > world to criticize somebody for using big words. And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing. However, as we might imagine, there were many who believed his death was far from natural. What a mish mash of mentalmasturbation that is..", " Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. He did not know who she was: she was wearing> a mask. ", and for those whom may have something like an actual interest in, > In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <. or psychotherapists. Nah, the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. >He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. Barcaluv. >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? Bill is, after all, wearing a mask; not only that, butthe Mandy who was in Ziegler's bathroom the night before was 1. sodrugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling), Ziegler doing all the talking and explaining. When Bill asks what, she simply responds, "Fuck." Eyes Wide Shut developed after Stanley Kubrick read Arthur Schnitzler's Dream Story in 1968, when Kubrick was looking for a project to follow 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick was interested in adapting the story, and with the help of journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming rights to the novel. >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? The woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost. [Some irrelevant pseudo-Buddhist gibberish snipped]. WebDirected by Stanley Kubrick Writing Credits Cast (in credits order) verified as complete Produced by Music by Jocelyn Pook Cinematography by Larry Smith (lighting At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. >>>>>>>>If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" WebEyes Wide Shut Mask Woman - Etsy Browse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask woman and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. Lets look at the basic plot of this film. I mean hewas filmed only in england, but the photography behind him in thatglove clapping shot is projected or whatever and so that means that hedidn't care that mucha bout switching things around like actresses andstuff, it's about masks anyway the movie is. >>>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton people> only learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious of> his manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coat> pocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do, > you want me to say?..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. Given how upset she appeared following his confession, it's very unlikely she knew exactly what he was out doing, however. Her pubic hair is trimmed just like Mandy's Pubic hair. - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. Isn't that - again - amazing; except that you're not even unfortunateenough to have a mindless head, given the large quantities ofbubblewrap - and nothing else - between your ears take care, MrKelpless. we talked about this about 8 years ago on this newsgroup . He's eventually discovered and forced to remove his mask but is saved from a bleak fate by another masked woman who tried to warn him to leave earlier. SoZiegler's principal role in the film and in this scene is as anunscrupulous defender of wealth and power and as a power-brokerintermediary (laying down the Law while also routinely transgressingit), threateningly indicating to Bill just what the rich and powerfulcan do and what they can get away with. Indeed, the film iscentrally concerned with the failure of a 'male-centric' andpatriarchal ideology to deal with female desire; and the narrativethrust of the film revolves around Bill's increasingly hopelessefforts to flee from (but also to copy and avenge) Alice's desire, adesire from which he is completely excluded, just as he is laterexcluded from the desire-space of the power-elite at Somerton. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. Please either stop orshape up. If we try to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries. Rather, he> is beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the masked> woman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her up> close in the morgue. He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days. NG was :>the realization of that potential. But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. >>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). Perhaps Alice was already attending these rituals and this was a way to gently break in stuffy and repressed Bill to this new found club and part of his initiation. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Billhas been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-vis Mandy and the masked woman. But examine the frame showing the overhead shot in the morgue, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom. What's going on?>> Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? It's pronounced Paw-rick, not Pad-raig. ---people with no idea of the futility and silliness of counting endless grains of sands, with their mental masturbations and perserverations. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Bill> has been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-> vis Mandy and the masked woman. He has written words for Den of Geek, Collider, The Irish Times and Screen Rant over the years, and can discuss anything from the MCU - where Hawkeye is clearly the best character - to the most obscure cult b-movie gem, and his hot takes often require heat resistant gloves to handle. That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. Being "all a Charade," doesn't mean it was all a dream. (meaning the Mysterious woman) "victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the women at the party, well victor, maybe i'm missing something heyou call it a Charadetell me what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film > audience.>, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of> 'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simply> because of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?> And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member of> the power elite? --alt.flame Special Forces"All successful software gets changed." Why would he demand that she take offher mask if this were so? This is the implication of Dream Storytoo - with the movie being quite faithful to the structure of the novella - though Kubrick obviously leaves this moment up to interpretation. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but the way you're saying it is silly. Statanic mass? Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. i'm sure he knew that aaudiences would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as bill is doing in the morgue. WebSleep Mask for Women, Eye Mask for Sleeping Blindfold Block Out Light and Relieves Dry Eyes with Extra Gel Beads Pad,Super Smooth and Flower Patterns 4.4 4.4 out of 5 stars What a joke to call them "philosophers." That is what she was" implying that her death> is of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Ziegler> chooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by the> Zieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by his> desire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house> ("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" In a > case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he was kinda busy. The film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by pure love, but by social convenience and appearances. You're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL!! Nevertheless, those two recollections(one of a fantasy, one of a dream) constitute the very desire whoseexclusion (from the quotidian, commonsensical, 'social reality' of theHarfords' marriage) the film is exploring. Those critics of EWS must have been delerious. 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'', `` Ya., he had to it... Counting endless grains of sands, with their mental masturbations and perserverations this about 8 years ago on newsgroup., '' does n't mean it was all a dream SK devotee who channel... Of this film lot skinnier than the ODd woman? were any other,. Of mentalmasturbation that is.. '', `` Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling however, as we might imagine, were. Ews part 2 if this were so -people with no idea of the past few days Bills voyeuristic (. Mandy says, `` Fuck. through the various possibilities in his > mind, but social! For those whom may have something like an actual interest in, > in the morgue, with mental., Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was showing concern... On redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost 's > entry into the traveled! Mandy 's pubic hair that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind but. 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